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Sticky mess

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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

So I go back to work for 2 days and I have a sticky mess again. I am starting to really wonder if I’m not picking something up there or if it is the pouch. I used the spray remover again this morning and not getting it off this time. The only thing I did differently the other day was I used an oily hair conditioner  on the area after all the spraying. My poor stoma is bleeding from all this cleaning. I’d love to get to the bottom of this problem. It really has me distressed.


   
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john68
(@john68)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1909
 

Hi Chelly, I have done a bit of searching online and “Witch-hazel “ seems to be useful for removing sticky residue on skin. I asked my wife as well and she said it’s also good for sore or broken skin. I don’t like suggesting using too many products! But I think in this case it’s worth a go. Maybe try a patch test first 👍

ileostomy 31st August 1994 for Crohns


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

@john68 thank you! I was at my nurse today and she helped get a lot more of it off. I’m in this extended wear product. I did talk to that company today prior to going to my appointment and the lady I got on phone told me exactly how these extended wear barriers work. She said they absorb the liquid as to keep our skin healthy but being that I rinse my pouch it could be getting too much liquid from the water I’m using to rinse it. She says then it can turn into goo. I honestly think this is what is happening and sometimes the wafer is melted into my skin. Anyhow after she explained this it made perfect sense as to why I’m going through this maybe. So then I have goo all over my skin and hard, hard, hard to remove. So Im imagining that I go get into the shower and the residue that is still around my stoma area is getting into my lower body as I’m showering. Into my wash cloths onto my feet, legs etc. I also found that even when showering with the pouch on this sticky material would get onto me. Maybe from being around the pouch end or on the pouch from when I rinsed while emptying? Also a heavy residue on my bathroom floor where I take my pouch off. I think it got built up. 
FYI for those using extended wear….. no barrier wipe and no rinsing. Two things I learned through this ordeal. 
anyhow my nurse gave me a new pouch that is still convex but not extended wear. She gave me enough to last until a new prescription gets processed. This will be a big question answered for me now that I have enough of these new pouches to see if it was the adhesive in the old pouch or not. I pray that , that is what it was. She also changed my stoma hole sizing as she saw when I was sitting the stoma gets bigger. 
I now have a filter in this new pouch. I do pancake quite a bit as to why I rinse. So I’m trying to figure out how to get rinsed without messing up the filter area as the pancaking does go all the way up there. I find that those oily drops loosen up my pouch so any suggestions on that subject that any of you have are certainly welcome. 
Anyhow no more extended wear for Chelly ever again. I’m not knocking them and are great pouches for most as this is not s usual ordeal with people. I think I just rinse way too much. I have a very active and pancakey stoma. 


   
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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

@chelly  ... My Goodness Chelly!! You have become a detective in your own right.  As I read along I am amazed at the difficulties a seemingly harmless pouch can cause only to have me shaking my head at what you have gone through!  It reminds me so much of the leak issues another Ostomate  (SqueakyandLiza ) went thru when she was a newbie. This lady dealt with so many leaks & so much more with healing & she too handled it all with grace & amazing patience!!   

I hope this new pouch hole size makes the positive changes you need  & deserve! Hang in there & keep trying hard not to get discouraged. You will find what works for you. 

When I dealt with mild pancaking issues I had to wonder if the gel by Coloplast I added to my pouch was causing leaks. So I changed how I put the stuff in my pouch. Once in the pouch I ever so slowly & carefully crinkled the plastic & moved it up each side of the pouch but kept it a good inch away from my stoma or allowed very little close to it.   I tried to never let it pass the half way mark of my stoma from beneath it.  I also folded over & taped in place  the top of my pouch with the charcoal vent in it towards the floor. I was very aware that the charcoal vent was only as good as it was named as long as it remained dry! Lololol, we all know what a real joke that is don't we?! 

I rinse my pouches too & honestly due to the acid in my ileostomy, I have trouble believing water can cause these issue & lean more to what I've eaten or fluids.  As it turned out, for me & the acidic strength of my output is what I think caused leaks but the folding over of the vent got me another day of use if I was lucky!!  

Wishing you all the best in the new pouch & I'll look forward to hearing if these changes work for you.

Linda

Linda


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

@dlkfiretruck hi, thanks for the input and well wishes. Yes those drops we put in the pouch for lubrication always loosen up my pouch. When I first got a stoma I can remember trying Pam cooking spray in the pouch but that too of course loosened it up. This is when I became just a rinser. I do use odor drops but with no lube in them. I wish I could be one of those people that did not have to and I also wish I could be one that could wear a pouch for longer periods of time. I have always had oily skin and humidity makes me sweat. I live in the northeast on the lake and it gets humid here. I always look forward to winter as it gets more bearable. In the winter my hands will get dry and crack though and when my doctor tells me to put lotion on them I cringe just thinking about the lotion getting into my pouch from my hands and loosening things up. Also, being a women, I use hair conditioner and that too can affect the pouch. So many things that we ostomates have to be careful about. 
so far new pouch is ok but it has that darned filter that stool keeps getting trapped in. At this point anything is better than a sticky, waxy situation. I do miss the way my old pouch is constructed and ease of use but I guess I have to look at which problem is better to have. If only convatec would offer that convex activelife in stomahesive wafer they would have a perfect pouch.


   
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LLNorth
(@llholiday)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 458
 

I tried extended wear samples twice and they worked very well, no deterioration for me (I know everybody’s body chemistry is different) - but they were quite a challenge to get off! Nearly took my skin with; there I was in the bathroom muttering under my breath “I can do this, I can do this …. “ slooooowly peeling them away. So, I decided to stay with what I had.

Colostomy 4/30/18.
I love the smell of coffee in the morning. It smells like .... victory.


   
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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
Admin
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 3840
 

Posted by: @llholiday

I tried extended wear samples twice and they worked very well, no deterioration for me (I know everybody’s body chemistry is different) - but they were quite a challenge to get off!

Adhesive remover spray makes this so much easier! The first wafer I ever put on (before my surgery as a test) was so stuck, that I was using rubbing alcohol to get it off. In some ways, I wish I could get that strength of adhesion back!

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.
~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

@llholiday I totally get that. At first mine came off easily but I think things must have gotten built up and the past 2-3,months it was on there like cement!! It felt like I was going to pull the stoma off trying to get that thing off. I kid you not! I had to use oily hair conditioner to get it to come off. Funny thing was is it was leaking beyond the ring around my stoma. 
one night I actually used a Krud cutter wipe. I was scared to use it but so desperate to get all the goo off.


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

I use the safe and simple blue pouch deodorant. Great deodorant by the way. The bottle always leaks when I put it in my work bag and even if I put it in a baggie it leaks. The top is s flip top but I heard they are getting new tops . Anyhow the bottle has a paper label and the other day it started to get really wet with the blue stuff and peeled a little so I ran it under water to peel the rest off. I tried cleaning the outside of the bottle but the adhesive was so thick and sticky so I put a paper towel around the bottle and yes it stuck on there.  This bottle was still so darn sticky and this has happened quite a bit to me in the past but it dawned on me…., could I be transferring this sticky stuff up into my pouch when I empty? I rinse and then I put some of the deodorant in there and then use a wet paper towel to wipe the bottom of my pouch. So I’m thinking. Could I be touching that sticky as sin bottle and then tending to my pouch with the same hand and transferring? I wear gloves usually. Hmm I feel like a detective. Trying to figure out this sticky mess is a puzzle beyond a puzzle because I had on a standard sensura yesterday and I was fine until I put it in my pouch at my first empty. The next empty was so sticky. So next time I put a sensura on I will check to see how it goes without the SNS deodorant  Regardless I threw it away. Im expecting some m9 any day now anyhow and I have a tiny bottle of t-3 until then. 


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

Well it’s off to the dermatologist in the morning. Maybe she can give some some asnswers to this stickyness. Is it the adhesives or something I’m in contact with or is it something medically wrong with my body? Hoping to get some answers.


   
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john68
(@john68)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1909
 

Chelly all the best and ask plenty of questions 👍

ileostomy 31st August 1994 for Crohns


   
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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

Chelly ... I hope you can get some answers. This must be so hard to continually deal with & clean up after.  Ugh, sticky on my hands or tummy from tapes is not a feeling I've ever enjoyed. I really understand your desire to find out why! Good Luck!! 

Linda

Linda


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

Still no answers. She says she can’t see anything on there so not doing a biopsy. Telling me to wear lotion and gloves which is near impossible. Gloves are too expensive to wear 24-7. I asked her what about some blood work? You know just the basics to see if anything there and she said I have to go to internal medicine.  She’s referring me to a specialized dermatologist. Go figure. I tried explain to her that when the feet, hands and body are totally dry that I don’t feel too much sticky maybe my hands and feet but as soon as a little water hits them or sweat that is when it starts so whatever this is, it’s water or wetness activated. 
I feel it’s going to be a waste of time to even keep going to doctors. They are not listening. 
it is very upsetting to walk around with gluey wax all the time and yes I’m sick of cleaning. I keep questioning the pouches as they are making them all hydrocollid. It abosorbs water and turns into a gel but also has adhesive in there too. 
the only thing that’s throwing me off is the fact I wore that pouch all last winter and no issues at all like this. The ring is the same ring Hollister cera that I’ve used for years. Then I would think a lot of others would be complaining about the same issue and I’m hearing nothing from anyone else here with this problem. 
there is a sticky situation at my clients house though. I keep wondering if I’m transferring something. In his sink it has no drain plug do the water splashes out when you turn it on and gets the floor wet and the floor gets sticky. We can hear our shoes sticking. I have cleaned out that sink a zillion times and it does feel like something is on it. Some kind of residue. I had him buy zero degreaser the other day. I let it sit for 15 minutes and wiped it but the residue still there. I really don’t even want to touch it with bare hands to find out if it’s sticky lol!!!
He keeps having me mop with Murphy oil soap because if it. He does not know what it is as we have other staff that works here too.  I do rinse my pouch and I use that sink to get the water from. We also had a sticky situation at my home in our carpet and had to replace the whole carpet and I do not know if it was from our front door mat or coming in from my clients home or what. We have that situation under control. 
I just want my normal life back really. I even had to get my car detailed from the stuff being in my hands. I cannot imagine an innocent ostomy pouch could be causing all of this. 
I had to take my shoes off in the doc office and I had to walk over to the exam table in my bare feet which were sticky. When the doctor was leaving the room she stopped to say something and her shoes were sticking and she actually looked down at the floor but did not say anything. 
it’s all too crazy and to think that just 3-4 months ago I was basically living normal with nothing like this going on. 
I have read that certain medical issues can cause sticky skin. So far they have not checked me for anything like that or any kind of tests or bloodwork with this being the 3rd doctor visit over this thus far. 


   
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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

@chelly  Oh Wow! After re-reading this several times... I'm going to encourage you to stop going to your clients house as an experiment first, if you can?   I will also encourage you to go to all the apts. You get referred to over this  & that YOU can possibly handle.  You've done & are doing your end of the work & I do understand that chasing down a reason why can be emotionally,  physically & even financially taxing but Chelly, for your sanities sake, I think you need to find out WHY this is happening. Do you go alone to the clients house or as a team? Does the other person experience this sticky too?? 

Maybe if its recent enough give a call back to who ever detailed your car & find out what they know that may have caused this or what took it away  & what  products it all works on that could be hard to clean.  Different products for different chemicals kind of thing.  But 1st, I'd avoid your clients house.  I know thats easy for me to say but knowing its affected your carpet & car really sounds like something is transferring over.  Also, are they times its better/worse then others?  How long has this been going on?  Do you use Barrier Spray or Cloths? Has your skin had a good rinse off before applying it? It might eliminate cross over contamination reacting to the swet on your skin. 

I'm just throwing things out there but, could it be something you are eating or drinking, possibly at the clients home especially if its at your clients home or from their home?  Are you there every day?  Try to keep a journal of what & how much you eat/drink after a pouch change & esp. before your clients home. 

Have you considered asking a HASMAT TEAM, a CHEMIST maybe.  I know that sounds crazy, but honestly I would need to figure this out too. Maybe they can put you in touch through a FIRE Department " Chief" ? They have different levels of Specially Trained staff.  Kind of like a bomb sqaud or chemical spills, different staff handle different issues, even in Laboratories.  Whats in the air affects us. My son started using scented laundry products last week & they live in my basement suite. The laundry is under my bedroom, the scent came up thru the heater pipes & before I even realized there was a scent in my room & walking in & out again with my clean laundry I had a bad asthma attack  & my lungs & sinuses felt like crap for 5 days afterwards. Thankfully Hes stopped using them. Whats in the air affects us!! Chemical smells in the air mixing with your swet & then going thru your system.... ?

What about asking someone high up in a Laboratory or Possibly a University Science Instructor??  Maybe they can set students onto your issue. It never hurts to ask right.  I'm thinking that they may be able to test your old pouch for you as well as samples of everything it comes in contact with that may be reacting with what you use.  If they agree ask for a DANGEROUS CHEMICALS BAG to transfer it in. You can get it at most labs.   Sometimes  Products change based on Gov't  mandates for the environment maybe the old bottle labels are still used without that change on it due to supply & demand. We hear a lot about S & D these days. 

Have you tried using a pouch you used before this ever happened & going to the clients home?  Your having to wear this & deal with it every day, its no sticky mess of spilled juice!! Let me commend your obvious HIGH TOLERANCE LEVEL!  

Linda


   
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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

after thoughts.. 

Chelly, sorry, I know this has been long, but if its transferred to your carpet & car & your shoes are sticky & your shoes never came in contact with your pouch it kind of sounds like something that devolves Rubber or plastics especially  if its splashing on you. Do your smell/ taste buds act normally while your working at the clients home? 

Linda


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

@dlkfiretruck hi, and thank you for the response. Yeah it’s a huge puzzle. I just got home from work now and took my pouch off and there was melted adhesive. I have the spray now so it releases easily but lots and lots of residue. I even used alcohol. I think I need to purchase gauze pads as they will work much better than paper towels. 
I do get three days off per week and I do notice it’s much better when I don’t go to work but is still there somewhat. It’s still not long enough to tell. I’ve thought about going back to work at a place I used to work for but trying not to do that. 
yes I’m there alone with the client so we only see our co workers at shift change. 
you know I was putting my bathroom bag up in a closet at his home and I was setting in top of a open type storage thingy. One night I thought I’d better go see what’s in that thing. It was all his crafting glue in there and I’m like why??? Glue everywhere I turn lol! WTH? Really when this is all over I don’t ever want to see, touch or feel glue ever again. 
Anyhow, the coworkers like to keep secrets so if he did spill some or if they did something they keep it under their hat. So no finding anything out through them. 
I used to be like you with the sinus, asthma and allergies. I always felt I was putting people out and when others don’t have the issue they don’t understand and think you’re trying to control but no it’s a serious issue. I have quit jobs in the past over people wearing heavy colognes. I don’t know why but I’ve gotten better the last few months. Not to say I’m 100% but some things still bother me. The only changes I made were stopping cpap and my allergist added nucala which is a shot I take once a month. I give the shot to myself so I don’t have to go in and they deliver the med to me. 
they keep trying to put me back in cpap talking about I could have stroke but I told them no. I did think about all of that and my asthma, sinus allergies were never that bad and by coiencidence festered up as I was using cpap for many years. I’ve been off for at least 9 months now. 
I told my sleep doc, no way am I going back in that thing to fight with doctors trying to get antibiotic when I get sick. When they don’t give them to me it turns into bronchitis and then I’m on my nebulizer every 4 hours for 3 months straight. Not to mention hacking and coughing while asleep. That speaks hernia to me and I just had surgery for those last year. Also the cpap gives you more gas. 
anyhow I can now handle carpet fresh, Persil laundry soap, dawn etc all things I could not before. Those glade spray air fresheners still get me and some heavy colognes. 
I don’t think I want to go as far as s chemist or s fire dept to find out where the sticky comes from I just keep observing  and thinking trying to figure it out. you asked about my taste and smell and no changes there although when it first started I’d say 3 months ago it got on my toothbrush even and I felt like I had wax in my mouth. I would chew gum to get it off. Not anymore though because I realized something isn’t right and got most things cleaned up.

back to that cpap…. No matter how diligent you are keeping the equipment clean it still going to get mold and bacteria on it. 


   
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john68
(@john68)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1909
 

Hi Chelly, From Reading you’re last post I am convinced it’s not you or your appliance. You say there is a “sticky situation “ in your clients kitchen. Question! Is there an extractor fan for the cooker/hob. I have seen kitchens where the extractor fan appeared to be working ie making all the right noises. Plus even been kept clean. But the problem was a cracked pipe to the wall grill outside. I would leave a kitchen in a very greasy state no matter how much cleaning is done 

ileostomy 31st August 1994 for Crohns


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

@john68 hello, yes he has a fan on the ceiling in the kitchen and it used to make a terrible noise. Now when you turn it on it does not work at all. 
the sink that splashes is in the bathroom though and when it splashes onto the floor it gets sticky under the sink and around the toilet area and then we are dragging it through the house on our shoes. I notice that in front of the stove and kitchen sink it feels sticky there as well and also where his garbage can sits. It doesn’t feel greasy though. When it gets on your hands it feels sticky like glue or gum. When I told his Maintence he said somebody must have spilled something.

The client next to the laundry room in his apartment and the pipes in the ceiling are presently leaking. They do have mold problems there but a state outfit just purchased this buldings and are going to be renovating soon. I can’t imagine what substance appears to be glue like but it appeared overnight. Strangely. 


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
Topic starter  

I think I found a pouch that makes this issue a bit better. Regardless of where it’s coming from I do know that certain pouches make it worse. 
the sensura standard wear was just as bad as my original. I get the thick waxy coating. The sensura mios that my nurse gave me seem much better only the filter… you know that gigantic circular filter was trapping stool and is did not like that I did not have a clear view of my stoma. The rep told me that they make this sensura mio in the light convex without a filter but it’s cut to fit. I don’t mind cutting and I’m pretty good at it. She sent me some and I absolutely love them. I can see everything!! I decided since I’m cutting the hole myself that I’m not going to use my adapt ring just the pouch because those things can get pretty waxy as well. I was getting a lot of wax around the stoma. 
So all day today I had it on with no ring. Not feeling the waxy sticky when emptying and rinsing today. 
I called my supply co and they are going to trade in for these. For anyone who is interested the reference number for the sensura mio light convex with NO filter cut to fit is 16748.


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 177
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This will be the real test to see if it is indeed something being transferred from my clients home via my hands while emptying or his water  spicket .I will be off of work for the next week so I will only be dealing with my pouch from home for the next week. 
Its strange because he complains of getting this sticky material in him as well. I’m wondering if it’s not somebody’s hair glue. As in another employee that spends time there. The problem has gotten better with the pouch switching and stopping the use of rings but still there to some extent 


   
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