It seems like the UK company Salts really cares about customer service. They are knowledgeable, they get back to you quickly and even with the time difference they get back to you quickly. They will bend over backward to get you what you need. They have been working on getting a distributor in the USA but have stated the red tape is extensive. They gave me the name of a distributor in Canada called Argyle Medical. 

Rick Mosseri is the owner and he is an astomate. I ordered from him directly and had to pay for the supplies. I then called Medicare and they sent me a form to fill out for reimbursement. After they pay their share, Medicare will then send any unpaid balance to my secondary insurance BSBS. This was just done so I am not sure how it will work out. I may also send it to BCBS directly. 

Rick is very knowledgeable and super to work with: argylemedical.com/

Momof3boys, I have experienced the same foul odor.  I am also a colostomate and have not experienced the foul odor until Cymed made the changes that have caused chaos in our universe for us.  Since I am always around people for everything that I do, I have been humiliated to the point of tears.  I have tried to analyze the situation and have tried to figure out how and where the seepage is occurring.  To me, it appears that around the pouch's adhesive part, somehow, someway, the material is not seared enough to prevent some kind of weird leakage.  I have tried putting tissue paper between my pouch and the water.  Oftentimes, the tissue is soaked.  Yesterday, I was at a church function, and I felt  that my underwear wet on the stomach area where the pouch sits.  Sure enough, although I had no output in the pouch, the stoma is always moist and produces moisture and a mucus-like fluid, so that moisture seemed to be seeping through.  Also, I have observed that the pouch's adhesive ring is not as strong as the previous design.  As a result, that moisture sometimes compromises the adhesion and hairlike cracks develop where seepage runs through.  It is extremely frustrating and humiliating.  I smell like a stinky swamp.  The worst part is that it happens at the most inopportune moments.  I try to sit as stiff as possible as not to move the pouch around because any small movement sends out a shot of the foul odor waiting to be released.  In addition, the filter doesn't work in the new pouches.  No matter what I try, any release of gas causes the pouches to balloon up even if I have no output.  I am an attorney, a college instructor, and a minister's wife.  Can you imagine what I have been going through the last 4 months.  The humiliation is inexplicable.  I have shed my share of tears over this problem.  I am giving up on Cymed and am beginning my quest for another  product.  I am glad I found this forum.

Evie! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact Cymed and express your complaints and your exact experience. I was Lucky enough to have found one of my old bags and YES, YOU ARE RIGHT, the adhesive is terrible in these new bags! I’ve tried 3 different companies products and haven’t found anything that compares with their original product. It is seriously devastating. I’ve tried to move on but I have so much product that I have to continue to use these bags for awhile. Seriously! A couple posts back I left the number for a guy, he is the CEO. Please call!!! 

Momof3boys, I just finished drafting a very detailed 2 page letter to Cymed's QC.  I found the number to the CEO that you reference in your post.  Like you, I am devastated because the pouches were the best.  They allowed me to live my busy life style, which requires constant people interaction, without fear of humiliation.  Since the new pouches, I have humiliated time and time again.  I have cried, and my husband had been great at trying to comfort me.  He is so kind and compassionate.  The odor is awful at night sometimes, but he tries his best to not make me feel humiliated.  Thank you for your comments.  I wish relief soon.

@Momof3boys Thank you for raising the question about European products. Both Salts in the UK and For Life in Germany are light years better than US products. I'm almost positive that the old Cymed that we loved (at least in my case, the one piece illeostomy 78400V and the pouches in its line) were made by For Life (part of their Stomocur line). Stomocur used to be available in the US from Edgepark, but when Edgepark was taken over by Cardinal Health, they were discontinued. I haven't even been able to find Stomocur available retail anymore. There was a WOCN who was the Stomocur US rep until all this went down, but she has since moved on to other things. Knowing how territorial US corporate capitalism is, especially in the pharmaceutical industry, i can't help but wonder if there is block on European ostomy products being made available in the states... or even if not "blocked," whether the red tape is so thick that international companies don't want the hassle? 

Which brings me to this -- and perhaps the need for another thread on the Forum -- as we continue to fight the good fight with Cymed, perhaps we might also mobilize as an ostomate consumer block to advocate for European companies to be carried by US distributors, and thereby covered by US medical insurance.

Eric @VeganOstomy, i know it's a different system in Canada, but are you networked with any US ostomy advocates who might either already know what the policies are in this regard and/or be able to help guide consumer activism to make a change here?

Many thanks.

PS: I am currently corresponding with a Canadian distributor to see how much it would cost to get ForLife / Stomocur pouches from them, and then to see if US insurance will at least cover part of it as "out of network." Will share any helpful results.

@jazz99 Yes, so much yes to all of this!! I ordered from Salts in the UK and discussed with them how I would be paying if I decided to use their product, they actually told me that “my products would be no cost until they are able to get a US distributor” 😮. There is absolutely a territorial situation with regards to pharmaceuticals within the US. It was interesting to me that the filter on the Salts product was identical to the new filter on the Cymed product. With this said, after @Evies comment I made a direct phone call to the CEO of Cymed. We discussed at length the situation that they are struggling with. Cymed outsources almost all of their products. The only product (to my limited knowledge) that they in house manufacture is their wafers the “Micro-skin”. (This  is again my limited knowledge please don’t take this as an absolute)  Our conversation helped me understand their struggle it is, in my opinion, 100% what you are discussing. The CEO didn’t give me this exact information as he obviously wasn’t going to give me the whole history of their company.  They are a small company and their out of country distributors have been consistently struggling to to continue to supply their bags, and each part of their bags, specifically because of the size of the company. He discussed that they would love to make all products in house but the financials to do that, at this time, just aren’t there. I can only assume that what you stated previously about capitalism and if I might add cutthroat competition is making it nearly impossible for them to import the product. I assume all of the other large manufacturers make their own products. This alone will inevitably, without changes that are made by customers like us, push smaller companies into oblivion. Which is devastating not only to loyal consumers, but to “The American Dream” if that even exists anymore. 

As a final after thought Cymed is trying to switch back to their original bags and filters but are “ideally” less than a year from that happening. Apparently there has been equally if not more problems with their urostomy products that they are finally working out and they will be then moving on to the colostomy bags. 

Thanks @jazzy let’s definitely run with this, I am all in! 

I know the wafers that Cymed used for their 81300V product was manufactured by Salts. Salts now uses the same wafer material in their convex CDSS1325 product. Cymed stopped using this wafer/adhesive from Salts in July of 2015.

Ok, I have some questions and comments:

 what bags are made in USA? try to find anything anymore thats not made in china?

Jazz what is light years ahead? I looked at Salts, nothing strikes me.  cymed has an internal membrane.

before you blame capitalism, take a hard look at free trade, corp taxes,FDA regulations.

I have lots of questions for Cymed.

they have been in business a long time, why don't they own their own tooling? why no control over materials used? why no apparent team of users to test these bags before a contract was signed?  simple welding machines are not the expensive, look on youtube.  maybe CEO pays himself too much?

here's what I use for my own microskin, of course made in  china:

https://www.exmed.net/p-4505-smith-and-nephew-opsite-incise-drape-transparent-film-dressing.aspx

or just google "opsite incise film."

I've gone back to Coloplast after being gone for several years. they have impproved their adhesives, the sensura(non mio) flange held for 8 days, thats, mtn biking, kayaking with sweaty neoprene on.  no need for a microskin.

this coating would truely be a light years leap ahead:

@dogtalkerer this is awesome!!! So liquiglide I saw  when it went on Shark Tank and I thought, “geez if I were a manufacturer of colostomy bags this would be an amazing product!” I actually forwarded on the information of the company to the Cymed CEO and brought it up again when I spoke with him. I do know a little about FDA regulations as my husband is a software sales rep for a regulatory control software that sells to hospitals, blood banks, med device. . . The FDA actually uses the product he sells. 

My opinion on the fact that Cymed doesn’t have their own tooling is because I believe they are/were a high quality low volume product. The fact that the CEO made a personal phone call to me, speaks volumes and makes me shows that this guy is trying to keep his company afloat, (he sounded exhausted BTW and both phone calls I had with him were 2 hours past a normal closing time 7pm PST) not that he’s paying himself too much. I believe I stated before that Cymed hasn’t updated their website in 10 yrs, from when I first started using their product. 

He told me directly that the reason it all changed is that the provider was no longer providing to them because they are a small company and their volume isn’t worth it to them to continue to manufacturing. He also stated that it wasn’t about cost, because I said, we’d all pay more for the product. It’s about volume. IMO 

There are a lot of unanswered questions. Yes, I don’t know why their QC isn’t an ostomate herself or more trials done. Lots of questions but only so many that could have been answered to me without breaching the companies right to privacy. 

But, the Liquiglide, do you purchase it yourself?? I NEED that product!!! It’s awesome that you’ve been using it! 

 Oh, no,no.... I do not have any liquiglide nor the derivative Ultra Ever Dry which  is on amazon.  it doesn't look like an easy application, costly.

i was just pointing out something I would call a light years advancement.  salts web site doesn't show much, bag looks not that much different than all the rest out there.

the coloplast sensura sticks to me much better than the last time I used them. in turn I really do not need microskin now.

as far as cymed, to me ,small volumes demand in house production.  you need real world testing of the product at all phases as well.  I worked with Herfurth of hamburg germany, they made full scale production machines for blood bags to ostomy.  but you can as well have very simple small machines, just this sort of thing for short production runs.  I can find the youtube video of a small 2 person operated machine if you like, tooling is rather simple for bags.

I'm an independent carpenter now, quality at the cost of long hours and little pay, sometimes, keeps me in business. poor quality, and I'm working at walmart. if everything cymed does is farmed out, what does the CEO and QC do? (don't really need to answer this)  I don't see this type of medical product suitable for a very small company, too hard to complete with larger Coloplast type companies that have the money to constantly upgrade to the latest technologies.  thats why I didn't go with cymed 10yrs ago, they only had the clip on the tail as a closure.

my dentist was having problems with an O2 tank regulator leaking, I went to local hospital that had a supply store.  guy kept asking me if the dentist had a prescription? I said No, she is a "Dentist" that uses oxygen, he would not sell me what was basically a kitchen faucet washer, nor would he sell it to the dentist without a prescription, FDA regs.  so I do not have a very good opinion of our regulation system if I can find an obvious common sense fault like this.

washer sold on amazon by the way.

Ok, here's a video of a small run production machine.  it appears to be a Radio Frequency heating machine but you also use a thermal heat welding as well, like an at home bag sealer.  much cheaper but slower production rates as well.

This is very interesting. Yes, this looks easy enough to not have to struggle with outsourcing the manufacturing. 

So, when you put that link up of the Opsite Incise Tape, do you make your own flange or wafer? Then use the sensura bags? 

I use the opsite same as you would use a brava strip.   I cut the pieces in half then cut a half circle out so it comes close to the stoma opening.  for me the coloplast always started to peel off at the top(from bending over), so I put the opsite across the top.  the hollisters would always fail in the middle on the sides.

I can send you a couple pieces, so far the coloplast is holding to my stomach so well I don't need the opsite film.  I'll warn you, it sticks very well to the skin and will stay there all week or longer.

so the funny part is, if manufacturers are improving their adhesives,  the microskin becomes outdated.   coloplast sent me brava strips but I see no need for them.

I’d love to have you send me some. Geez, what’s wrong with actual ostomates perfecting the wheel. So many things I’d change and make work better. When you live with it 24/7 you realize products you see in the world that would really help change your life. I use Pam cooking spray inside all of my pouches before I put it on to keep from pancaking. The liquiglide whichever company grabs onto that product will be the top in the whole market. I’ve seen a more recent YouTube video on the liquiglide that shows that it is already being used in a variety of medical areas, like in permanent ports that regularly become clogged etc... 

I dont mind having a product work for a week, that would be my dream! 

Thx 

don't know if this is allowed, j    paul    6500    att hot mail

no spaces of course, just to help hide.   you can sent me your address.   I did look if I could send you a private message but didn't see anything.

Dear members,  I have been using Cymed 86300 (urostomy pouches) for over 28 years.  I am 53 years old and have had an Urostomy for 51 years. It is my life. (I mean besides my wonderful kids husband and job and Loving Jesus) but yesterday I was presenting in front of 100 people at a conference and yes the worst thing..my bag fell off..urine EVERYWHERE including the cloth chair and the floor.  I am still sick...I went to the bathroom with the microphone still attached and I cried and cried..this is the second time this has happened in a big public event but in the last year it has happened MANY TIMES...at first it was the way they were sealing the bag to the micorskin...now it is just the microskin..it just falls off..urine finds it way out and BOOM..everywhere. I was talking ot Gary (the QC guy..he left in the fall) and Nina is now "handling" my case. The MICROSKIN is NOT THE SAME..(yes I am upset)..it doesnt stick the same...They say they have never heard of this...can this be true..is it the sticky different. I am out of old bags and I am going to have to go to another co.  I am sick..I would love to know if you are experiencing with the sticky.  Thanks for any ideas....oh I am secruing with tegaderm for now..

another thing..I asked the OWNER how they test the bags..on real people..he couldnt answer me!

FacBFH, thank you for sharing that experience. I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have felt and how frustrating it must be for you to be going through this.

As you can see, you are not alone, so I do hope that things go back to where they were with these Cymed products. 

Sadly this is all a pattern of Cymed reducing quality by switching suppliers and manufacturers globally to save a buck. The result is urostomy, ileostomy and colectomy pouches that are just plain unreliable.

I switch [back] to Convatec after years of sticking with Cymed and having more problems. Any quality problems I had early on with Convatecs (wafers with whole areas missing adhesive and wafers would separate from skin) were gone. 100% of the pouches I get are really good quality. They improved the plastic used as well (not quite as good as the original Platinum Series of Cymeds but very close) and I've not had a bad pouch nor problem the past 6 months.

It is time to switch folks. 

I have a feeling there is a law suit of some type Cymed is being sued by the former owners estate...something is fishy..I am trying to find something that will work...any ideas welcome ...I need a lo profile, urostomy one pc...

Hi FacBFH,

So sorry to hear of your product nightmare! Yikes. But welcome to the forum.

I have an illiostomy, so not use the same, appliance you you but I have had excellent luck with the Hollister products. Check them out on line, I know they make urinary products too.

All the big companies will send samples, but I know it is horrible to have to fix something you though you had working. Especially something as central to your physical and mental well being. Let us know how its going.