Brings back memories when I was practising with an appliance before my surgery and the wafer simply would not come off with extreme effort!

Your insurance company sounds like they're being difficult on purpose! Modern ostomy adhesive removers are silicone based and are probably the least likely thing to cause a reaction... certainly better than damaging your skin trying to take off a very stuck on wafer!

But it will get easier to remove with time. Even though I can get very long wear times, I'm also able to remove my wafer without even using adhesive remover anymore. In the beginning, though, it was a necessity!

It's great that you're trying new products and practising! It really does help to prepare you. ?

Posted by: @veganostomy

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Your insurance company sounds like they're being difficult on purpose! Modern ostomy adhesive removers are silicone based and are probably the least likely thing to cause a reaction... certainly better than damaging your skin trying to take off a very stuck on wafer!

I agree!! Unfortunately it's all insurance companies in The Netherlands, that follow this policy. I qutoed the booklet I got from the Ostomy Association about which accessories are covered or not by insurance. Everyone has an obligatory 'basic' policy. Our Health Insurance Laws state what must be covered in the basic policies. The government gets advised on products and such, but I must say that the basic policy gets less generous and more expensive every year. 

Since ostomies are medical necessities, there is no additional policy that will cover more accessories. And even then, I doubt it would be worth the premium to get that coverage just for the remover wipes. I might just buy them, if I keep having trouble removing the appliance. Or maybe, my skin just needs to toughen up a bit and it will get easier, like it happened with you.

Removing your wafer without using a remover wipe or spray WILL cause skin irritation eventually. I use the spray, as my skin is like tissue paper and if I attempt to remove a wafer without it, my skin rips open and becomes a bloody mess! Your insurance company is just being difficult. If your doctor prescribes a remover, they have to pay for it!

If I run out of spray, I'll jump in the shower and let the hot water soften everything up and then VERY slowly peel it off. (I use the Hollister 2 piece convex system and have been very happy with it the last 8 years.

@veganostomy 

Eric,  what is your weartime record?  I use hollister 2 piece and have gone 5 days…what criteria do u use to change?

By the way..my hair around stoma is a pain to remove..what do u do for hair removal?

Posted by: @cat-momma

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I might just buy them, if I keep having trouble removing the appliance.

Honestly, if it improves your quality of life, it may be worth paying for out of pocket. Especially if you find yourself removing residue all the time, it really does help!

Posted by: @rick

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Eric,  what is your weartime record?  I use hollister 2 piece and have gone 5 days…what criteria do u use to change?

I average 7-10 days, but have gone longer than 10. The problem with going longer is that hair grows under the wafer and that creates opportunities for a leak.

Generally speaking, if the edges peel up too much, or the center part of the wafer feels puffy, then I change it. Sometimes, my skin will itch by the 7th day, and that's often a sign to change it.

Posted by: @rick

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By the way..my hair around stoma is a pain to remove..what do u do for hair removal?

Tweezer =) I try to tweeze every hair possible, since it delays growth longer than shaving. I've also picked up a dermaplane, which is like a mini razor that works very well on invisible (peach fuzz) hairs, and I'll use that to clean up after tweezing.

I used to use an epilator, and could still do that, but I like the simplicity of a good pair of tweezers.

Before and after I tweeze, I'll clean my skin with either 50% or 70% isopropyl alcohol. I've been doing this for years, and all of the above + switching to a 1pc has made a tremendous improvement to my wear time.

you don't make it clear how long you wore these bags? your experiements are a little flawed by not having a corroding substance in the bag - human waste.

i find the mio to come off too easy, reducing wear time.   i find the coloplast sensura a far better product than the mio, basically the same,  but far simplier in design and much lighter in weight.

hollisters are more difficult to remove without leaving a hard to remove residue than the coloplast.   i myself have never used an adhesive remover, very warm water.   once you have the real thing in the bag,  your experience will change.

you will probably test many of these bags over again, I'd suggest to wait for the real tests.   

weartime and ease of draining was what i settled on.   cymed had the best wear, hollister had the best filter, but the coloplast had the easiest & cleanest draining, and good weartime.   

Posted by: @dogtalkerer

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cymed had the best wear

Are you still wearing cymed? If so, were you affected by the debacle from a few years back with the reformulation?

@cat-momma ... Hey... I was thinking... have you tried contacting a local ostomy support group??  Or even an Ostomy Nurse?? They may have ideas as to how you can get the things you need covered in order to correctly care for your skin & for comfortably changing your pouch. 

The thing is after wearing a pouch for even say 5 - 7  days with output going in & out of the pouch, the skin beneath the wafer becomes softer & softer & more so over the years.  Eventually it becomes like a  new babies tender bottom & it really does not take long to get there. 

You need to protect that skin for all your worth bcuz as time goes it does become more tender and a pouch being removed can tear into your skin causing bleeding & making for a VERY uncomfortable wear time. Honestly, it burns like the dickens to have a pouch go on top of raw bleeding skin even with stoma powder on it, the burning won't stop until it has healed over & you will need it to heal so you are not opening yourself up to infection under the wafer from the moisture that does developes there. 

I'm about 15 trs with an ileostomy. I'm 65. I  live in a hot dry climate & with our high humidity days.   I have had those tears, 9 to be exact at one time & its the most awful thing to deal with beneath a wafer. 

I would strongly advise that if you can at all... at least make room for the adhesive remover spray or wipes, I use both, whatever your preference and the Barrier skin Protector wipes or spray. . One thing I've noticed is a can of barrier spray lasts me a month or so & the adhesive remover sprays about 3 weeks to a month for one can depending on how stuck on my wafer gets. I also use the adhesive remover wipes bcuz its vitally important to remove any built up residue that will form under your wafer.  I first noticed the build up when I started having leaks  & was using more bags then I wanted to & also only using  2 wipes of cleaning the skin just like the nurses did in hospital.  Wow! Was I sorry for that move. The nurses were working with virgin skin so there was no build up! But 8 or so months in there was build up on build up. It took almost a whole box of remover wipes to get it all of. The skin was then squeaky clean... literally. After that I made a point of taking the time to make sure it was all gone & the difference has been no leaks & very happy skin! Knock on wood! Lolol. 

Ofcourse its up to you, but the Surgeons won't usually move a stoma bcuz the skin has gone bad. So please, protect it for all your worth. Maybe get mean with the insurance company & say.  So you'd rather pay for way more pouches then cans of the needed skin removers & skin protectors bcuz my skin has torn or I've developed a bad rash that won't heal & requires prescription medications or even hospitalizations??? Ugh! I just can't imagine the idiots running insurance companies that are only pencil pushers  & have no clue whats all involved in ostomies.  Please  Excuse my bluntness, My heart really goes out to you !! 

@veganostomy , nope!    while they still have the best feel and torelate athletic motion better than any other I've tried, the ease of draining went in the toilet and they start stinking sooner than before they made the manufacturer change.   I could fix the drain problem if i had easy access to plastic welding supplies.

all bags seem to last less than 5 yrs ago.

Each of those manufacturer Carries  different models of thier bags also so ask for the different ones to try out too! Out of all my bags I’ve tried I have found the convatec activelife to be the best for me. It’s sturdy and  keeps smells from leaking out. It is the least one for allergic reactions for me. Only downfall is the skinny end but I dont mind because it had the longer tail I get less splash back and I love the clip enclosure as then I know as long as I have it clipped on right there will be no leakage from the bottom. 
same here for adhesive remover. They will not cover it but my nurse found out the spray cans they will. I tend to like the pads better but if you have a hard to remove wafer it will peel off with ease using the spray and then wipe the rest up with the pads.,you will find that sometimes you will need to use way more than one wipe as someone else mentioned the stuff can build up. I learned also that soap and water on a paper towel will get the bag off but that would still need to be wiped with adhesive remover. Smith and nephew brands remove adhesive remover is the absolute best I found to get off difficult build up. It removes even hard to remove and hydrocolloid adhesives. But then after the adhesive remover my nurse had me wipe the area a couple times or shower with dial gold  or white bar soap. Cuz you need to remove the adhesive remover now with the soap and then rinse well. 
it’s hot here too today I could feel some melting going on. 
remember that about this thing with bags lasting 5 days or whatever day that people have different skin types too. Sweating, rinsing, watery output and being very active can all make a persons wear time shorter. Everyone is  different in that aspect. For instance I sweat easy. Also I have oilier skin. I work and move around a lot on the job and I rinse and do with all that my wear time is 24 hours so I just get in the shower with bag off after doing the removal steps. The person who said it will be different once you get the real output is correct because your going to see like if you pancake up around the hole you cut for the bag you can get leakage and that is where the rings come in handy. The hollister cera ring I feel is the best. So you can mix and match products like say s convatec bag with a hollister ring. They also make  pastes. But once you get the stoma you will learn which things are going to work out by trial with the output. 

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and tricks with me! 

I do understand that my dry trial runs are much different from when I finally get my stoma and there will be output affecting the wafer and adhesive. According to the Hollister rep I spoke to, I should be expecting watery output during the first few months while everything is healing on the inside. A funny (but also a little disgusting) thing happened during my trial run... I noticed at some point that the Coloplast sensura mio pouch was ballooning and I couldn't figuere out how this could happen. But when I went to empty my fake oatmeal porridge output, it became clear... It had started to ferment a little, since it was such a hot day.

I've checked my supplier's website and some remover wipes seem to be covered by insurance as a 'medical aid'. But not, for instance, the Brava remover spray. It's very confursing, so I guess I'll find out once I've had my surgery.

Like you @goatherder my skin on my belly is quite thin and I imagine it will get damaged very easily if I'm not very careful. 

Anyway, I'm glad I got to experience beforehand how to apply and remove the wafer, drain 'output' and such. This will help me check the boxes after surgery, to leave for home as soon as possible. The boxes to be checked, obviously, are: producing urine and being able to pee (use my catheters), producing output, able to care for stoma without aid, manageable pain without need for pump or injections, and lack of infection.

Hi Cat momma, The oatmeal making the bag balloon! That’s something you’re output will do as well!. Remember that you’re first few weeks/months with a stoma will be very different than when you are healed and things settle. I think you will be fine as you are approaching with knowledge and a great attitude ??

@cat-momma you will get ballooning from gas as well. Well yes, we fart from our stoma too lol!!! I usually get gas at night when I sleep and it gets really big and tight. Sometimes enough for the bag to pop off. To let it out I just open the end and flatten everything back out. Before you leave the hospital have them write a prescription for underpads for your bedding in case you should get any blow outs or leaks during the night. It happens seldom but being your first starting out you may want to have them.

Posted by: @chelly

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Before you leave the hospital have them write a prescription for underpads for your bedding in case you should get any blow outs or leaks during the night. It happens seldom but being your first starting out you may want to have them.

Great tip @Chelly! I might try that, though I don't think they are covered with my current medical supplier. Ugh, insurance.... I must rememnber how lucky I am, since I don't ever need to pay more than € 385 for a year supply of medical appliances (including my catheters), but it gets more difficult every year to figure out what is covered and under which conditions.

I did buy a washable mattress cover weeks ago and I do have some puppy pads stored somewhere. I might order another mattress cover, just so I can have one as back up (so I don't need to wait for washing and drying). 

Yes you may or may not need but when I first got my Ostomy when I was in the process of figuring things out I did have a few leaks. After I got it figured out it was very seldom and usually due to gas getting into the bag. The things can blow up tight like a ballon.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to deal with some of those things. Ballooning, leakages... user errors... But I'll have you guys to keep me sane, and help me with all your experience so I'm not worried about any of that.

@cat-momma ... I think your going to manage just fine once you get past all the healing your body now requires.  But yes, we are here & eventually when we can help you'll get the responses you'll need to give you a starting off point. 

I LOVE the osto-e-z- vents so much. It meant I did'nt/don't have to lay down to burp the pouch & Heaven knows I had a few burping mishaps when there was'nt enough of any output in the pouch to empty & What I felt was wasteing the M9 I paid dearly for on my budget.  Stoma placement maybe¿ did'nt make emptying an easy task anywhere. I always needed to find a washroom if I was out or lay on a bed.   "Rose" was very active in the gas area I searched for the pouches with the vents my GI talked about but never found one that worked thru my wear time,  plus they were charcoal vents that plugged up too quickly!!   That was ... until I stumbled on Erics site.  Thank you again Eric! I think You saved my sanity! Theres a video on VO for the Vents if you have'nt seen it, you may want to take a look. Don't be a stranger! 

The hospital set me up with Dansac Novalife TRE bags one-piece system. Zero ballooning with these, the filter is really good. But I've seen more pancakes than I care for, so I'm waiting on the Adapt lubricating stuff to remedy that.

They want me to use a one-piece at first, just to get the hang of changing the appliance and prevent stool from sitting on my skin too long as long as my stoma has not yet settled to its final size yet. I found I'm not really that good at cutting or placing the wafer, there's always more skin exposed on some side of my stoma than there should be. I think my sizing is good, but placement is lacking.  It's still a bit hard to see the bottom part of my stoma, due to swelling of my abdomen. It's getting better slowly, but this makes placement of the wafer a bit troublesome. Guess I need much more practice, lol...

So far, no irritation of the skin around my stoma, so that's good. But I do have a lot of residue build up. The residue from the post-op appliance is still on my skin and I can't get it off with just warm water. So I also ordered some remover wipes, for which I have to pay myself. It's fine, I won't need them all the time, just when the build up gets too much.

So far, no other accessories necessary like rings or barrier creams or stoma powder. Have not had leakages or blowouts yet, but I did wake up once at 5 in the morning, with a completly filled stoma bag. Changed it and went back to sleep just fine.