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Rick
 Rick
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September 16, 2020 5:24 pm  

Sometimes my appliance has an Odor to it.  I follow the same procedures daily, but on my final day before appliance change, there is a odd odor.  I don’t see leakage, and gas is being held in bag.  Is there some microscopic breakdown somewhere that might cause this?  And is there an exterior way to cover odor?

I already use the deodorant lubricant 


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LLNorth
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September 16, 2020 6:39 pm  

I have been in the same boat, and I never did figure the mystery out - but this has helped greatly: I wipe out the inside of the opening really well after emptying, then use a flushable wipe to clean the outside, then the inside. Then I add the M9 drops and then dry inside and outside really well before closing. 

 

Colostomy 4/30/18
I love the smell of coffee in the morning. It smells like .... victory.


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john68
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September 17, 2020 1:58 am  

Hi Folks, This is just my thoughts, It could be a case of being over aware of the bag. I have had the same experience in the early days and would ask my wife could she smell anything. Never was any odour plus I also think we can maybe get a smell in our nose from emptying. 

ileostomy 31st August 1994 for Crohns


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LK
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September 17, 2020 7:12 am  

This is a very concerning and NORMAL issue folks! I'm certainly here with John on this! I have 2 dogs, if they're not smelling me nobody is...if your short a dog...borrow a friends or neighbours! 

One thing I did to settle this for myself in the beginning, when I had spent a day thinking I was smelly & finally asked those I trusted most if I was smelly,  they all came close to sniff make  scratch & sniff jokes, but,  my hubby, bless his deceased heart, bent down to my tummy to check out what I thought I smelled, in the end he said NO ODOUR. Still certain there was one, I changed my 4 day old pouch, a one piece & gave it a really good sniffing over.  I smelled as close to the cut out area as I dared and nothing matched what I thought I was smelling. There was just no odour. I think we are simply & rightfully so,  selfconciece about odours for 2  reasons. One... we are just new with it and worry "very normally" that we may be stinky. Two... the stoma & pouch are kind of in our faces when we empty, so maybe our brains memory system is playing a trick on us simply because it's newish & the last thing we want is to carry an odour with us, so our  "smell memory" is having fun on us. Go outside after an empty &  take some nice deep cleansing breaths and see if that helps. 

What to check... have a look at the side of the pouch closest to your skin. In case there was a dried splash, give it a wipe down with an alcohol wipe if  you have one & if theres fabric on it & you see discoloration, wash it or cut out the area, or remove it all. Before tossing, give it  sniff test & check if you needed to worry.  Also everyday, needed or not, at bedtime,  I wipe down the outside area of the pouch. I have a spritz bottle of rubbing alcohol & give it a spritz &  wipe with  TP, look at the tp for colour & see if there's evidence of soiling there. If you have a Vent attached, wipe that down too. Sometimes close to change day I notice a discolouration around the edges of the built in vent and will spray it give it a good clean & let the alcohol dry it out. Also, with a square of TP, if you have a built in Vent, fold the tp over the edge of your pouch & slide &  squeeze berween your thumb & index fingers from top to bottom or side to side to help squeeze out any moisture that may be in the sponge or charcoal its made of. If the pouch Vent has that white covering that's the piece the gas is coming thru last,  so squeeze it from there 1st.

I found these little steps put me at ease tremendously... plus using the M9 liquid deoderant  too ofcourse. This is "very normal" to experience! 

Linda


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dogtalkerer
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September 17, 2020 8:59 am  

YES, Rick, you smell what you smell!!!  period!   especially when it's approaching time to change   plastics are POROUS.. 

LK, your dogs don't react because they always smell your bag.  surely you have heard of bomb sniffing and drug sniffing dogs. the smugglers do their best to wrap in plastics and other materials but the chemicals migrate through those materials and dogs pick that up.

my dogs have smelled wolves approaching from over 300yds away-900feet.  

here's some  tests everyone can try: 

leave a milk jug out with some milk still in for a couple day til it stinks, now try to rinse it so the stink is gone 

smell the outside of a garbage bag that's sat in the sun.

put a used ostomy bag in the disposable bags that come in the box.  wrap it up tight and let it sit for a day or two.  now smell that disposable bag, does it stink?

everyone surely has seen partial deflated balloons or even the cellophane helium balloons sitting on the ground after a day 

all examples of plastics being porous.

who hasn't emptied a bag in the bathroom and thought it didn't smell too bad, only to return 5minutes later and the bathroom really stinks? we all tend to become less sensitive to ordors , people in close constant contact also become less sensitive to  bag smells.   and of course some people have more sensitive noses than others.


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john68
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September 17, 2020 10:20 am  

Hi Rick, I would like you to ignore the post by dog. I am sorry Eric to directly dismiss another members post, but new members like Rick need support and advice. 

ileostomy 31st August 1994 for Crohns


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LLNorth
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September 17, 2020 12:29 pm  

@dlkfiretruck LK. I think you may be right about something getting onto the outside of bag when it is being emptied. It could be something so small. I have started passing my soapy hand over the front and back of the pouch when I shower (I know not everyone keeps their bag on when they shower but it has worked for me).  Any little thing that helps - and that we can offer one another to try to help - that is what this site is all about, right?

Colostomy 4/30/18
I love the smell of coffee in the morning. It smells like .... victory.


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LK
 LK
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September 17, 2020 1:07 pm  

@llholiday...Thank you Linda,  it sure is right! Encouragement verses cold discouragement goes  the mile! When I first joined here I knew it was the best thing I could have done for myself since my hubby died.  I had no one to bounce things off &  had no clue I could try different pouches or install an Osto EZ Vent! 

Everyone was so kind  and I was 8 years along my pouched journey to boot! I had figured out all I could, but the help here is important and very useful! 

Standing alone in this situation is hard but having a community to go to & to question,  such as everyone here  is fabulous! 

I've said it before, Eric had an insight we did not know we needed! Thank you again,     Sir  Eric!  I  have just Knighted you!! 

Linda


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dogtalkerer
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September 17, 2020 1:36 pm  

my comments can all be checked.    everyone here has the capability to search " bomb sniffing dogs" and learn about their nose sensitivity on their own.

the little experiment I suggest, everyone can try.

here's one more.  chop a strong onion in a bag, close it up and see if you can start smelling onion through the bag in a couple of days 

use a zip lock, ostomy bag or both 

 

telling people what they experience and observe is total nonsense, is unforgivable.  how do you know the details of their obseveratons?

I experience what Rick talks about frequently many others have asked this question as well.   . how are so many people wrong but John and lk are right?.

I do suggest LK and John closely re-read Rick's obseveratons. their answers don't match Rick's obseveratons.


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VeganOstomy
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September 17, 2020 4:36 pm  

Alright folks, let's try to calm things down a bit. 

Rick, while these appliances are designed to be odor-resistant, there are cases where smells can get through. 

  1. The plastic itself. Even Hollister acknowledges that bags may still pass through smells, and make it a point to say that their updated bags (the chlorine-free ones) are better at preventing this from happening.
  2. The wafer can seep smells, even if an actual leak isn't present. The reason for this is because the hydrocolloid used can absorb moisture, and as a side-effect, smells. The longer you wear your appliance, the more likely it is to notice that. 
  3. Filters! If your bag has a filter, even if it's not leaking, it can emit odors.  They are usually built with charcoal to minimize this from happening, but that's not guaranteed. 
  4. How you clean your outlet can make a difference. It may not be visible, but if any output or residue is left on the tail end of the bag, you will notice a smell. 

The experiment that @dogtalkerer brought up is an interesting one to try. I'm almost certain that all bags will eventually let the smell of onions through - plastic, especially thin plastic, has a tendency to cause smells to seep through, which is why I continually have to remind my wife not to put bananas next to bagged toast bread! 

Let's be a little more civil, please. We are all learning and sharing our own experiences here. 

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.

~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


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dogtalkerer
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September 17, 2020 5:10 pm  

vegan, can you point me to your "odor resistance" source? I'd like to read the details.

I talked  to a retired chemist this morning about porosity of plastics   he said yeah, people fail to realize how porous plastics are.

it was puzzling to me why 2 people who don't even have colostomies nor have had this problem , hostily dominated this post?


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dogtalkerer
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September 17, 2020 8:51 pm  

vegan, I'll assume your wording is correct.

notice they say odor resistant and not odor proof, a important difference.

also hollister's comment does not specify a time frame when the plastic might pass smells, all lawyer talk for covering your butt.

for me bags can start smelling after 3 days, 6days or not.  too many variables at play- food, temperature, digestion speed, gas or no gas, tolerances in plastics manufacturing to name a few.  


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ChrisandBagpus
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September 18, 2020 7:07 am  

My Personal experience.

I after a few weeks newbie trainng!

I use a 2 piece bag.

I now only get a odour if the Carbon filter has failed-bag needs changing.

Carbon is a odour and particle blocker/filter if it gets wet it losses it effectiveness it still works as a particle filter but is no longer effective against fumes, additionally you might notice the bag balloons or deflates more slowly indicating the filter is failing.

Respirators that use carbon filters (paint spraying, military, hazards)to block fumes have to been changed if moisture builds up after a short period of time or bad storage.

If the output is more liquid it can degrade the adhesive seal of the wafer odour sneaks out before the liquid - 

In warm condition the wafer seal can un-stick and allow wrinkles on re-sticking that act as pipelines for odours and leakage. I now cut and shape my wafer to allow it to follow skin contours better, which has improved the wear time.

Colostomy Jan 2020


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sjlovestosing
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September 18, 2020 1:34 pm  

I guess I'm in trouble here as I am slowly losing my sense of smell. (It runs on my mother's side.) I usually spray the bathroom with a natural odor neutralizer just in case anything lingers. However, I never realized that odors can come from the bag itself, and as I do not easily detect these smells, it could be quite embarrassing. I do change my appliance every three days and use M9. Plus, I meticulously clean the spout when emptying my bag. I sure hope this is enough!

Stella


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dogtalkerer
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September 18, 2020 2:10 pm  

correct Chris.  your comments got me thinking.

often people describe problem  as smell, stink, or odor,  but not feces smell.  the plastic of the bags acts as a filter itself. mine will take on a smell of bad breath, odd chemical smells or a smell  an of an infected tooth.  that's why the dogs LK talked about only react to a direct bag leak- pure human wasted,  compared to a bag which is fractionally  filtering off gases of human waste.   the dogs don't recognize a fractional chemical of the pure waste scent.  they surely smell it but are not trained to react.

I do get feces smell occasionally from the filter. which as you say,  indicates saturation.  instead of changing thou I just deal with ballooning   

 


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VeganOstomy
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September 19, 2020 12:47 am  
Posted by: @dogtalkerer

vegan, can you point me to your "odor resistance" source? I'd like to read the details.

From Hollister https://www.hollister.com/en/pouchfilm :

Improved odor control 

Your pouch film now has odor-resistant properties that can contain gas longer before it permeates the film.

Saying "odor proof" would certainly be problematic as the technology for these bags just isn't there yet.

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.

~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


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ChrisandBagpus
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September 19, 2020 6:07 am  

So now we have it if a manufacture claim an improved permeability feature its a KNOWN and reported problem.

Next question what do you eat that makes the bag deteriorate quicker?

Its not a serious question but diet will have an effect! Eric's vegan diet means no decaying animal product- not sure about the curries though :mrgreen: 

Colostomy Jan 2020


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LK
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September 19, 2020 6:51 am  

@sjlovestosing...hey  Stella, like Eric I strongly believe too that as long as your cleaning the outside and mouth of the pouch well &  the vents/vent  too,  the liquid  M9, which on change day & maybe the day after,  I mix with the gel lubricating deoderant also, to prevent pancaking from a  well working vent,  rub one ir both around the inside of the pouch too,  add rinsing 2ce,  also, it all helps to prevent any noticable by others  offensive odours from escaping. I use the Hollister 8331 with built in filter & I add the Osto EZ Vent and  once the filter fails I will squeeze from R to L of the little vent with a square of TP folded over it &  find if helps tremendously or I tape if up.  I do change every 5 days but if my lap dogs let me know there is an issue, I will change earlier.

Truly at 3 days, I think I can strongly encourage you that you need not worry about anything.  If you find someone's fibbing to you put them in the dog house & call me!! lol!!  

TIP... store onions in tin foil in the fridge, no onion odours this way. 

 

Linda


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sjlovestosing
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September 19, 2020 9:37 am  

@dlkfiretruck

Hi Linda,

Thanks for your reply. I use M9 every time I empty out. I also have a filter on my bag for those occasions when I need to deflate. However, I keep a shower adhesive over the filter so that I don't totally flatten out, which causes pancaking. Maybe I am being over cautious, but I've been doing this for just about two years. My olfactories have been in decline for a few years. I can't even smell the gas from the stove, which is why my husband installed a CO2 detector. He has a much more sensitive nose than I have, so maybe I change often enough after all to keep the odors at bay!

God bless,

Stella


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VeganOstomy
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September 19, 2020 3:17 pm  
Posted by: @chrisandbagpus

Next question what do you eat that makes the bag deteriorate quicker?

It's not that the bag deteriorates like they are degrading in some way, but more that they are permeable to smells (in varying degrees). 

dogtalkerer mentioned trying an experiment with onions in a bag to see if you notice any smells, and this would be a great experiment to try among various brands.

You can find quite a bit of information about the permeability of plastics as the food industry has a huge interest in this area. This site has a great chart showing how various materials compare (note that steel, aluminum, and glass are pretty much impermeable) when you look at oxygen permeation rates: https://www.polyestertime.com/permeability-and-plastic-packaging/  

1600543047-O2-Permeation-27-06-2016.jpg

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.

~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


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