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glenn.giroir
(@glenn-giroir)
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May 2, 2020 3:29 pm  

Hi Everyone.  I'm really confused about how filters are supposed to work.  I have Hollister bags with and without filters.  I really like the no filter bags.  I can get through a night without any problems, but most mornings my bag is ballooned.  So, I think that a filter bag would be great, except that every time I try one I have the same problem.  All of the air seems to get sucked out of the bag until the entire bag is collapsed.  I mean really collapsed, like it is vacuum sealed around my stoma.  The last time I tried, it was sealed so tight against my stoma I couldn't even pass output.  I'm pretty sure this is not supposed t be happening, and can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.  I do live at elevation - about 6,000 feet above sea level.  Not sure if this has anything to do with it.  I just end up taping over the filter, which fixes the problem, but of course, makes the filter non-functional.    


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john68
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May 2, 2020 3:48 pm  

Hi Glenn, I think you are gonna have to join along Q of confused ostomates! I never been a fan of them but some work better than others from what I have seen by posts on the subject. Yes most common leaks I have had are not waking up and the bag full of gas! But if wind becomes a problem have a good think about problem foods later on in the evening 


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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
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May 3, 2020 10:18 am  

Glenn.giroir...I made the decission to use the filtered Hollister Pouch #8331about 2 years ago. Arthritic hands after a pouch change can at times be pretty sore and I totally get the suction thing! However I do 2 things that work for me.

I tape over only part of the filter limiting suctioning and I use the Osto E Z Vents.  Once I figured out foods that were causing a lot ballooning issues, gas was still an issue, bread being the worst offender, I still gave the Vents a good try. I love them! 

Yup, they are a little costly on my budget but they are to me, an amazing tool. I payed over 30 bucks, 10 in each pack last time.  You install yourself but I do it over 2 sessions and 2 packages at a time. This  way I do not feel overwhelmed with...oh, again!!! Last time I did 3 packs and have no regrets on that either! Lol! 

 I  get mine thru the drug store but even that may be changing thru a credit card and internet knowledge soon! I'm still learning the locate and ordering thing! Lol! 

Tip...I find the process a bit tiring on my hands but found out using a 99% alcohol works quicker and is more efficient at removing the shine off the pouch so it sticks better. Because of alcohol strength I have to sign for the alcohol at the drug store. Canadian  🇨🇦 rules.

Contrary to what someone here has  said, and " not our  Eric ", lol, the shine " does so " come  off the plastic but it takes time, a little patience & perseverance! The stronger the alcohol the shorter the scrub time!

Tip...Get yourself a smoothe surface  cutting board, some paper towels, a plastic glove to protect finger tips as your scrub, coffee and set yourself up in a comfy chair, the time  goes by quicker in front off your fav. TV show! Lol! 

Tip...I scrub 2 bags at a time. I place an alcohol wet piece of towel over one area to soften the shine where I  put the Vent, and work on the 2nd pouch with another piece, I tear in strips using 1 towel total. Scrunch it and move the scrubbing surface around for the towel and change it every 5 pouches. When you think the shine is gone, scrub a little longer and check it in a good light. 

Use this as a teaching moment to your kids. Let them help. Then after they have done a few pouches, say...wow, amazing, golly gee whisakers, if alcohol ☠ can do this to the thin shiney surface of a pouch, just imagine how quickly it will eat thru your soft stomach lining and cause unstoppable bleeding!!  A person could die in minutes  if they drink alcohol! 😱 The nurse in me is so not above instilling a bit of fear &  it can go a long ways sometimes! 

Next...remove the plastic over sticky part. I use a blow dryer to warm the sticky part of the Vent. I think it adheres better and "keep the pressure on" them as directed in instructions. It does make a difference!!! Lol! Chalk one up to an unpleasant Experience! 

Tip...make sure the Vents are in the same direction on each pouch that you prefer to open them at! That  was once an annoying error on my part!!!

Tip...I cut a one inch section off a wooden broom handle and drilled a hole in the centre the size of the plugs hole. I use that to place over the plug to give a more even pressure while I time the advised pressure & it doesn't hurt my finger tips this way. A coin will also do! When I failed to do so, I had Vent issues with sticking for duration of pouch use. My bad! lol!🤦‍♀️ 😖 💩 

Next....because of shakey hands at times, my son helps here, I use a piece of wire hanger  and a locking pliers and  high heat on  the burner of  my stove to heat the wire and melt the hole in the pouch thru the little plug area. I found scissors + arthritis = pain and a lot of frustration!!!

I hold  the Vent up off the rest of the pouch holding the base on the kitchen counter with one hand and vent up with the other, made it more secure from accidental burn and  to avoid melting  the plastic anywhere else in the pouch. Once melted, Blow on it a bit to cool quicker. Avoid melting the little short tube the plug part goes  in as it does compromises a good seal.

These are tried and true methods for me and I order one pack a month to avoid one big expense. I keep a little flashlight by my bed to open and secure vent safely and without flow thru it at night. 

Tip...I find my Rose (stoma)  to be a gassy girl & opening & closing the Vent often will cause one flap or the other on the Vent to fall off. Flaps help open Vent without tearing pouch plastic around it.  I recently discovered using a thin strip of the stretchy C SHAPED TAPES, cut a little shorter then from  flap 2¹ flap length across the top part of the Vent prevents loosing a flap or 2 after 3 days use.  I can get 5 to 8 days on one pouch depending on heat & type of work & bending I do. I'm pretty sure duct tape will provide the same benefit. I also keep a small bottle of hand sanitizer by the bed to avoid having to get up and wash my hands after venting at night.  Steam, moisture and droplets right¿? Sounds like COVID19! 

This  vent is so darn convenient I can hardly believe I had a life without it before I learned if it thru Erics video! Thank you Eric!!! A vented bag may not be needed after a Vent is applied for you. But keeping a few pre vented pouches with Osyo vents,  may be nice to have on hand for an evening out to avoid opening the Osto EZ Vent in an inconvenient  place! 

Sorry this went long, but these tips made my life so much easier I can't  help but share them. Keep us in the loop! 

Linda


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LLNorth
(@llholiday)
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May 4, 2020 12:04 am  

Hi Glen, My one and only experience with a filtered bag was much like yours - If I had kept it on much longer it might very well have turned me inside out! LL


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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
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May 4, 2020 12:12 pm  
Posted by: @glenn-giroir

 I'm really confused about how filters are supposed to work.

I should probably write an article on this, because it IS a topic that I think needs to be clarified. 

Filters are really only designed to do one thing: allows gas to escape from your ostomy bag without you needing to do anything. 

At least, that's how they are supposed to work, but as most of us know, that's not how they tend to work.

Filters that work well should be able to allow gas (but not liquid) to pass through for many days or until the user replaces their bag. In reality, they get clogged up quickly and stop working. 

In your case, the filter was working TOO WELL, so the end result is a vacuum effect, which require user-intervention. I wrote about why filter stickers are useful in this case here: https://www.veganostomy.ca/ostomy-filter-stickers/

 


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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
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May 4, 2020 12:55 pm  

Thank you Eric! That would be a great idea.  Maybe include a little blurb about the Osto E Z Vent and connect to an article on that also. It took me about a years worth of putting on Vents to come up with tips to make it so much easier on my arthritic hands.

I know not everyone requires them but I sure find them super helpful, and even the filters have there place for me after a pouch change, allowing my hands to rest a day or two before they stop working properly.  

I vote for an article! You always explain things so well! 


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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
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May 5, 2020 10:18 am  
Posted by: @dlkfiretruck

Maybe include a little blurb about the Osto E Z Vent and connect to an article on that also.

That would definitely be worth mentioning. The EZ-Vent is more of an "active" gas valve rather than a "passive" gas release, but it's a wonderful alternative and/or adjunct to the pre-installed filters. 


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dogtalkerer
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May 5, 2020 4:02 pm  

partial vacuums or pressure differences are commonly used to move liquids.  so to say that a vacuum on the stoma side stops output is kinda backwards and odd.   

Glen did you have pain? did the flange start to get pushed off your stomach? I've wore wet suits that were very tight and constrictive  where the output pushed under the flange.   in my experience, nothing really stops output from coming out.  but a colostomy is different.

on rare occasions bags have stayed compact, never a  problem for me.


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glenn.giroir
(@glenn-giroir)
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May 5, 2020 6:06 pm  

@dogtalkerer

No pain, and all was well with the seal.  I'm sure output would have eventually passed, but pancaking would have been an issue.  I guess I just don't like the feel of the bag being that way.  I have no problem with no-filter bags.  I was just wondering if there is some trick.  I've not tried taping part of the filter yet.  


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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
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May 5, 2020 6:31 pm  
Posted by: @dogtalkerer

so to say that a vacuum on the stoma side stops output is kinda backwards and odd.   

In my experience, the vacuum effect restricts the flow of output and/or causes a terrible case of pancaking, which can/will eventually result in a leak and generally feels uncomfortable.  It drives me crazy when it happens! 


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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
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May 6, 2020 12:51 pm  

The way I see it, it makes perfect sense that the vacuum would restrict flow. Reason being...the tissue of the stoma is softer then  maybe a solid pipe of some kind that dogtalker is likely  talking about, where a vacuum is used to suck things thru verses being pushed thru as our intestine does.

Looking at a package of meat for instance that has been vacuum sealed, nothing moves around it except  maybe a wee bit of fluid and that would be from gravity or a bit of pressure on the package itself, the meat stays put going no where, like  bacon in a suctioned   package, which also allows no air to get the bacon making it last longer as well.

If a patient has a hole in the chest thru to the lung, causing difficulty breathing correctly, in an emergency situation plastic or even a hand is used over the hole to prevent air flow thru it and allows air to flow thru the lungs correctly once again. The plastic suctions to the chest wall over the hole, and is taped or held in place to allow correct breathing again. But this is a secondary hole to the lungs, the patient is able to breath correctly again but still needs surgery to repair the hole. 

The stoma being a softer  tissue then a solid pipe, and compressed tightly in a pouch by the effects of the  filter working too well for the first two or three days, but as clogging from moisture happens, air flow stops, as in the plastic over the hole in the chest wall.  This pressure   stops output flowing thru it because the exit hole in the stoma  is now suctioned closed by pressure. A colostomy has a  different function then an ileostomy as they only move at certain intervals where an ileostomy moves all the time unless eating is stopped the night before either at a certain time to allow a better and longer sleep period or for a scope the next day.

In the case of a wet suit,  I know myself, I would not wear one with an ileostomy unless I did stop eating the night before, no breakfast, snacks or lunch and limited fluids, allowing me to wear a wet suit the next day without having to surface and empty a pouch as  frequently as an ileostomy requires.  Add the pressure of a wet suit then the pressure of water on a diving body.  The pressure on the physical body in a dive  acts the same as a vacuum packed meat, stopping movement from the stoma. 

The wafer being pushed off the stomach happens only when output gets behind it liquid or solid. For me, I get a great discomfort and serious electrical like tingling in my stoma and behind it when output is more solid or pancaking  occurs. Pancaking may eventually make it's way under the wafer but activity dictates that as well. I can move the output away with my hand or leave it there suctioned to my abdomen in the pouch.   Leaving it there will do one of two things, cause output flow to stop or pancaking gets under the wafer causing an eventual leak. I have been sound asleep at night and will be woken up by this pressure and very annoying almost painful tingling. 

It all makes perfect sense to me over a solid pipe suctioning fluids out thru it or having them pushed thru it. Two different effects and two different stories. Nothing backwards here.


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dogtalkerer
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May 7, 2020 5:04 pm  

glen, when this happens, what happens if you just open the outlet?  does this situation continue? how long?  I'd see this effect for maybe a couple hours, don't recall it happening after a emptying of the bag.

like I've said before, if you feel pancaking,  just push it down .   pancaking is far better than runny output as far as I'm concerned.   thick output is easier to deal with.   with my lifestyle, adding air to a bag in attempts to reduce pancaking would be disabling.

Coloplast had a flexible device that pulled the bag away from the body. I saw it and said no way.

how does pancaking not occur when you on your back or side? what about in a lounge chair? air in the bag is not going to do any good here. 

 


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glenn.giroir
(@glenn-giroir)
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May 7, 2020 9:48 pm  

@dogtalkerer

I honestly haven't really gotten that far before taping over the filter.  I guess I just don't like the feel with a filter.  I don't really need a filter as I am pretty lucky to have little problem with air, and I like to empty my bag frequently.  I can make it through the night with no problem (I get ballooned a bit but never to the point of concern).  Guess I was just curious if I was doing something wrong, but as for now, I'm content with Hollister bags with no filters.  Thanks! 


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Ken S.
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May 28, 2020 3:14 pm  
Posted by: @dlkfiretruck

I payed over 30 bucks, 10 in each pack last time.

Linda, I paid $17.49 US, including postage, for a 10-pc little plastic bag of them at https://www.hpms.com/Osto-EZ-Vent-by-Kem-Enterprises-Inc-p/kem-kmezvent.htm .

Also, I ran out of 99% and 92% alcohol, and used an emery board instead. It took less than 10 seconds to remove the shine. I heat the adhesive on the Osto-EZ-vent with a hair dryer on low for 10-15 seconds, without removing the protective tape, before applying it to the pouch. No problems so far.

I use the Coloplast pouch with a filter that works well until it gets clogged after 5-10 minutes.


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Ken S.
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June 10, 2020 11:36 pm  

The plastic formula they use for our pouches is amazing. But, it's like a self-sealing tire when you poke it with scissors to open a hole as shown in the Osto-EZ-Vent instructions. I agree with LK that a better way to make the hole is to melt the plastic pouch, but I took a different approach in doing that.

  1. Prepare the pouch for the Osto-EZ-Vent by using an emery board or very fine sandpaper (or use the 72% alcohol as in the directions) to remove the shine where you will attach the vent.
  2. With the protective covering in place, warm the Osto-EZ-Vent adhesive with a hair drier on low or medium.
  3. Remove the adhesive covering and attach the vent securely to your pouch. 
  4. Take a break and enjoy a popsicle that has a flat stick. Then slide the stick through the starter hole in your pouch. Move the stick under the vent hole.
  5. Unfold a large wire paper clip so that you have about a 2-inch straight length.
  6. Heat the end of the paper clip wire with a flame from a gas stove, match, lighter, etc. It does not have to be glowing hot. You should be able to hold the other end of the paper clip with your fingers.
  7. Carefully put the hot tip of the paper clip wire down the neck of the vent opening until it stops at the popsicle stick. Hold the wire against the stick for a few seconds. Most likely,  you've made a hole that won't close up.
  8. Withdraw the wire. If you don't see the stick clearly through the vent hole, reheat the wire and try again. Be careful to not let the hot wire touch the sides of the vent neck.

This link should open a photo: https://ln2.sync.com/dl/a4e8480e0/mnd2rt3e-p8pa33ui-fjpczi6g-w69nuhwt

 

 


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LK
 LK
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June 11, 2020 6:49 pm  

@ken...oh Ken...I have just given you a standing ovation!!! You  have no idea how much I hated having to hold the walls of the pouch away from the wafer area in order to melt that wicked little hole!! Thankyou, Thankyou, thankyou for the popsicle stick idea! I love it!! I'll give your Emery board idea a try on the next batch of pouches recieving the vents!  TEN SECONDS is very appealing to me! As I get older my hands and finger joints rebel more  over doing tedious tasks like rubbing the shine off the pouches! It's not that I mind doing the job, its that darn arthritis after.  Butt between the two ideas,  I've now got this in the bag!!! Thank you again Ken, this is very helpful! 

Linda


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Ken S.
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June 13, 2020 4:04 pm  
Posted by: @ken
  1. (or use the 72% alcohol as in the directions)

 

That should be 91% isopropyl alcohol, not 72%.


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Ken S.
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June 13, 2020 4:07 pm  
Posted by: @ken
Posted by: @dlkfiretruck

I payed over 30 bucks, 10 in each pack last time.

I paid $17.49 US, including postage, for a 10-pc little plastic bag of them at https://www.hpms.com/Osto-EZ-Vent-by-Kem-Enterprises-Inc-p/kem-kmezvent.htm.

Amazon has it now for $17.47 with free shipping. https://www.amazon.com/Flat-D-Osto-EZ-Vent/dp/B005PFNUK2

 


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LK
 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
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June 14, 2020 8:09 pm  

@ken...Thank you Ken for the heads up! I sure appreciate it. Next month I start ordering new vents again. I like to do 20 at a time. Lol...last time I did 30.  

Oh, about the alcohol strength, I realized it was not the 72% because that's what I had tried and pretty much rubbed a hole thru the bag with that low strength! Lol! The Emery board or very fine sand paper is still very much appealing, but I have a bit of a stock pile of ready to go pouches to use up before ordering more vents for  that fun to begin!  


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