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Using Hollister M9 Deodorant to minimize ballooning  

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TomasARowen
(@tomas)
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July 12, 2017 11:48 pm  

Hi all,

I watched the following video on YouTube, uploaded by Vegan Ostomy:

"Dealing with Ostomy Pouch Ballooning (gas in your bag)"

In the video comments, I suggested using Hollister M9 deodorant to minimize ballooning.  I did some experiments to prove it works.  Vegan Ostomy suggested that I transfer the information to this forum.  To keep the full context, here is the entire conversation.  Some names have been changed to protect the innocent...  :-)


I commented:

Hi Vegan Ostomy, here's my tip for ballooning: try Hollister M9 Deodorant.  I rarely have ballooning with Hollister pouches (with M9 deodorant).  However, like your example at 0:19, I have frequent (sometimes catastrophic) ballooning with Coloplast pouches (with Coloplast Brava Lubricating Deodorant).  On a hunch, I tried M9 in my Coloplast pouches, which drastically reduced ballooning!  My SWAG (scientific wild-a$$ guess) is that bacteria make their way into the pouch and continue to produce gas; I think M9 has anti-microbial properties that kill pouch bacteria, which reduces ballooning.  As a test, I stopped using M9 in my Hollister pouches and I experienced near-catastrophic ballooning.  These experiments left me disappointed with the filters of both brands.  I asked Hollister about this "anti-ballooning" side-effect of M9, but they could not confirm or deny it. :-)  I might try to prove it myself, via an experiment involving yogurt.  If so, I'll let you know what happens!  I'm out of M9, so I'm trying saline, which seems effective against ballooning, but no odor control.  Other antiseptic additives might work as well (mouthwash, coconut oil, etc.), but haven't tried them yet.


Vegan Ostomy replied:

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, and several deodorants kill bacteria. Unfortunately, this may not work for all ostomates since gas coming from the stoma may still cause ballooning but I'm interested how your tests go  :-)


I wrote:

I decided against the home-made yogurt test.  I planned to make 2 batches: a "Control" batch and an experimental "M9" batch (with Hollister M9 added).  The "Control" batch should turn into yogurt, but the "M9" batch should not (if M9 kills bacteria).  The problem is, this test doesn't address the question of whether or not an ostomy pouch contains bacteria.  Therefore, I did a more realistic, less appetizing test involving -- brace yourself -- actual ileostomy output.  I'll post the result next, but it was not as dramatic as I expected.


I wrote:

To test whether or not M9 reduces ballooning, I put on a new Hollister pouch (no additives).  When it was very full, I emptied it into my measuring container from the hospital.  I divided it into 3 ziploc bags (150 cc each).  I added 12 drops of M9 to the "M9" bag, 5 mL of Brava Lubricating Deodorant to the "Brava" bag, and nothing to the "Control" bag.  I squeezed out the air and sealed the bags.  After 8 hours at room temp (70 deg. F), there wasn't much gas: the "Control" bag had about 50 cc, the "Brava" bag had about 40 cc, and the "M9" bag had about 20 cc.  It looks like M9 did help, but the pouch itself seems to be a minor source of ballooning.  Some variables might make it worse, e.g. higher temp (body temp instead of room temp), older pouch (3-4 days old), composition of stoma output, etc.


Vegan Ostomy replied:

This is wonderful stuff! Do you plan to repeat the test to see if the results are the same? And to answer the question you asked in the other comment : ileostomy output absolutely has bacteria in it. From what I've been told by doctors, the bacteria that would have normally set up in your colon colonizes in our ileum and some of the small intestine. As another variable, take something that we absolutely know kills bacteria (bleach, rubbing alcohol, etc.) and add that to a fourth bag to compare.


I wrote:

Thanks!  Sure, I might do another run.  :-)  According to "Google University", mixing bleach with acid generates chlorine gas, which could be misleading.  I think hydrogen peroxide also generates gas.  Not sure about isopropyl alcohol.  How about vinegar or iodine?  I'm still researching this stuff.  I just remembered, I also have Levaquin!  I'm thinking about eliminating the "Brava" bag and adding a "VSL" bag, in which I'd add a packet of VSL#3 DS, which should generate more gas.  What do you think?


Vegan Ostomy replied:

haha! I love it! At some point, I'll duplicate this experiment to see if we get the same results. This is groundbreaking stuff!


I wrote:

Hi Vegan Ostomy, I did another run!  Run #2: I divided 400 cc of output into 4 ziploc bags, 100 cc each.  I added 18 drops of M9 to the "M9" bag, 500 mg of Levofloxacin (antibiotic, crushed tablet) to the "Lev" bag, a sachet of VSL#3-DS (900 billion bacteria) to the "VSL" bag, and nothing to the "Control" bag.  The samples are smaller this time (100 cc, not 150) and I used 18 drops (not 12) of M9.  I squeezed out the air and sealed the bags.  After 9 hours dangling in a tub of water on a heating pad (water temp range: 75 to 85 deg. F), the "Control" bag had about 150 cc of gas, the "Lev" bag had 30 cc, the "VSL" bag had 30 cc, and the "M9" bag had about 5 cc.  The anti-ballooning effect of M9 is impressive.  Levofloxacin worked well, presumably by killing bacteria.  I thought VSL#3-DS would cause ballooning, but it did the opposite!  Maybe it caused rapid overpopulation of bacteria (by doubling every half hour?), which killed them all.  If only I had a microscope...  :-)


Vegan Ostomy replied:

This is fantastic! I'm going to have to order more M9 the next time I get supplies and see if I can get similar results with "real world use". =)


I wrote:

Good luck with it!  As you mentioned earlier, it won't help with actual flatulence, but it might help to avert disasters by reducing gas produced in the pouch.  At the very least, the odor control of M9 is excellent.  I'll post some more test details of run #2 next...


Vegan Ostomy replied:

I'm willing to say that most of my ballooning is not caused by gas from my stoma, but gas produced by the stool. In that context, this could very well solve a great deal of trouble for me! 

 

If you are inclined, I'd love it if you could post this experiment, as well as any follow-ups on my community forums: https://www.veganostomy.ca/community/

If me (or anyone on the forums) would like to replicate the tests, I'm sure we'd have a great time comparing results!


I wrote:

Sure, thanks for the link.  It looks like this thing is really starting to balloon now...  :-)

Notes on Run #2:  I used Ziploc double-zipper 1-quart freezer bags (better quality, but harder to work with).  Before sealing each bag of output, I squeezed out the air by slowly submerging the bag in a tub of water (only up to the zipper, not fully submerged), then carefully zipped it closed (the water pressure squeezes out the air).  The amount of gas in each bag was estimated by measuring the volume of the bag at the beginning and end of the test.  To measure the volume of a sealed bag, I submerged the bag in 700 cc of water (in a 1000 cc graduated measuring container) and noted how much water was displaced by the bag, held underwater by a bent wire hanger.  For example, the "Lev" bag (in 700 cc of water) started at 820 cc and ended at 850 cc; the difference is 30 cc (of gas).  The bag's volume rose from 120 cc to 150 cc.  I proved my measuring containers from the hospital are inaccurate, so I bought a better one at Amazon.  I tested their accuracy with a postal scale, assuming my scale is accurate. :-)  Water density (at 70 deg. F) is 997.9 g/L, so I filled my containers with 998 g of water to see if they showed a volume of 1 Liter (or 1000 cc).  This proved my new container was dead-on and my old ones were way off.



Well, that's all of it.  I hope I copied everything accurately.  I had to pack a lot of info into small YouTube comments, so if there's anything I need to unpack or clarify, please let me know.

If you pay for supplies out-of-pocket, you could use M9 only at bedtime, which would provide overnight anti-ballooning protection at minimal cost.  I use it around the clock for the excellent odor control.

Regards,

TomasARowen

PS: "TomasARowen" is an anagram for "a stoma owner"  :-)

 


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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
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July 13, 2017 12:15 am  

This is fantastic! Thank you for doing to work to get it from the YouTube comment section to here! I hope that others can do their own tests to see how the M9 (or other products) work to help prevent ballooning. 

I managed to find some sample sized bottles of M9 and I had used up one of the bottles with my own experiments - I did find that ballooning was reduced when I used it.

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.

~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


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Dona
 Dona
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July 13, 2017 1:34 pm  

Thats really interesting. Thanks for posting. I will get some M9  ( from outer space) next time my Hollister order is filled.Maybe if lot of us try it, we could learn more.

Onset of severe Ulcerative Colitus Oct.2012. Subtotal colectomy with illiostomy July 2015; Peristomal hernia repair ( Sugarbaker, mesh, laparoscopic) May 2017.


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Willy
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July 13, 2017 10:38 pm  

Wow, that is some impressive research. I am a regular user of M9. It is the most impressive product I have found for odor control. I have not noticed a reduction in ballooning as I started changing out as soon as ballooning starts, but come to think of it, it has been less than before I became an avid M9 fan. I tried the Holister and Coloplast lube/deodorant products and neither of those did anything to help control odor. I probably over use M9 but I use 3 small squirts from the 8 oz bottle when I'm at home, and when I'm at work I carry the small bottle and give it 3 long squirts. That silly 4-12 drops per change is nonsense, just give it a squirt or 3. I'm telling you, almost or absolutely no stink at all after emptying. My family and coworkers are now M9 fans LOL!


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VeganOstomy
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July 13, 2017 10:40 pm  
Posted by: Willy

 That silly 4-12 drops per change is nonsense, just give it a squirt or 3.

Haha! Yeah, sometimes I feel they understate how much of the product you should use because it makes it seem more economical! 

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.

~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


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bluesgal
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July 16, 2017 12:32 pm  

I'm fortunate enough to be able to get Xifaxin tablets free through our military pharmacy (I understand they are quite expensive) which kills off "bad bacteria". It's a med that is used for people who have bacterial overgrowth in the gut. I take one of these a day and it significantly reduces the production of gas and odor. I also take 2 VSL-3 capsules a day to keep up the population of "good gut bacteria". This combo was recommended by my GI doc.


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TomasARowen
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July 16, 2017 2:23 pm  
Posted by: Willy

That silly 4-12 drops per change is nonsense, just give it a squirt or 3.

Yeah, I used to count the drops, but now I just use a squirt.  For me, a "squirt" is about 28 drops or 1 mL.  An 8 oz. (240 mL) bottle of M9 contains about 240 squirts, which should last 30 days (at 8 squirts per day).  However, for the M9 anti-ballooning tests, I figured I should start with the recommended dosage (12 drops).

I think Hollister should follow up with their own tests and, if they get the same results, start advertising the anti-ballooning effect of M9.

 


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Susan
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July 16, 2017 9:53 pm  

Re: M 9 

I use Hollister 2 part barrier and pouch (forgot the numbers at the moment) and I use M9 when I empty my bag. I guess I may be stupid but I use 12 drops or maybe a few more. I do not get any odor or have a problem with odor and the charcoal filter seems to work. I had my Ileostomy in February of this year and I pretty much follow instructions of Hollister and my Stoma Nurse. I did try the sachets and they made my bag almost impossible to clean. I take Metamucil 2-3x a day fir thickness like my Surgeon said and I eat pretzels, peanut butter on a half of a thick bagel and a few large marshmallows. Itbiserms to be working OK but I do get a liquid output sometimes but M9 seems to help and not in the large "squirt" bit whatever works for you. We are all different and maybe Men are different than Women and I will always be troubled with a liquid output but to get back on subject, M9 works fine for me.

I may try a Coloplast sample in the near future. I still have issues not related to M9 and once in a while I have had ballooning but not often. 


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