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Any suggestions on how to prevent M9 leaks...

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 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1467
Topic starter  

Hey there... I have had this issue for a LONG time & never thought to ask here what others do to rectify the issue if you have it.  In light of swapping out to a new pouch & being able to wear it now,  for 7 to 9 days, verses the typical 2 since Hollisters denied changes, lol,  I can't help but notice a more pronounced leak around the areas of the drainable opening where the hard plastics of the roll up velcro closure is. 

It seems after 3 days of wearing the pouch,  as with all the others I've worn, I get the blue of M9 Staining my clothing. I've tried a lot of different things to remedy it but so far have no luck.  I'm feeling frustrated by a recent leak & I have to wonder what other ostomates do to prevent these leaks if you get them.  

I've changed the way & where I hold the opening when draining my pouch to try & prevent wear & tear on the plastic, but fail.  I've added pieces of the extender tapes using the edges that are thinner to hopefully add support to the thinner plastic & to avoid bulging taped up areas once folded up, glues & more tapes & more glues ....they all fail after a short time. Does anybody have any bright ideas out there to prevent this ridiculous leak?? I'd sure appreciate any suggestions & ideas you may have. Thank you for considering... 

Linda


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 506
 

My thoughts are that if your leaking M9 then stool is also leaking from this velcro closure. This is the  reason I stopped using velcro bags and will only use bags that have clips. A man on another forum is using a clip like you would use in an office to hold papers together on his hollister. I'd be afraid though that the pointed metal edges would poke a hole. 

I'm happy with my convatec active life with clip but it does have a smaller empty end but I adjusted to that and can do it carefully and with ease. The clip is very secure as long as it's clipped securely. 

You may want to check into a pouch with a clip if they have one. Just checked and found this hollister with clip below in link. The openings may be smaller but with practice and patience you will eventually be able to do it with your eyes closed lol! It beats taking a bit more time to be careful than to have poop leaking from my pouch end. 


   
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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
Admin
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4206
 

Posted by: @dlkfiretruck

Hey there... I have had this issue for a LONG time...  I can't help but notice a more pronounced leak around the areas of the drainable opening where the hard plastics of the roll up velcro closure is. 

How long is long?

I ask because I've had this happen since Hollister "improved" the bags by making the plastic thinner 2-3 years ago.

It's a frustrating problem, for sure, and I've also tried rolling the outlet different ways to see if that helps.

The best results I get is to clean as far down in the outlet as possible with rolled toilet paper, then I make sure that there are no air bubbles in the outlet let as I roll it up.

This doesn't work 100% of the time, but it helps. I attribute this entirely to the “improved” bags, which also get split ends on the sides, at the very end of the outlet.

I think that @chelly offers a good suggestion, too. Try the bags with the clips. Not an ideal solution, but I do think it would work.

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.
~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 506
 

@veganostomy that is really a shame these pouch companies allow products to leak this way without fixing the issue. I had similar with the Coloplast mio. It was leaking from the sides of the end of the velcro when my bag got full. So yeah, for me I have to have a clip. I hope LK can find a solution. Fristrating problem to have indeed.


   
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LLNorth
(@llholiday)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 536
 

I use Hollister with the velcro ends, and for the last couple of years have been also using one of those springy little metal paper clamps, just in case. I make sure the opening is very dry as far as I can reach using one square of toilet paper, flip the end up one more time before the clip - for added security as well as shortening the bag slightly, which I like - and so far have not had a problem with getting poked by the clip.

Colostomy 4/30/18.
I love the smell of coffee in the morning. It smells like .... victory.


   
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(@dogtalkerer)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 315
 

If you spread a thin layer of petroleum jelly, Vaseline, in the tail area before rolling it up,  should stop leaks. 


   
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 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1467
Topic starter  

Thank you everyone for the feedback!  What a great community we have here!!!! Eric, yes, it feels like forever but it has been since  "Hollisters (Stupid, deniable Improvements"!  I had to really think if it happened before that,  but I really don't  think it has. . . Ugh!!! Another symptom of what?...  from the company, new management maybe, cozt improvements ? ? ? ? ?  

This past week, I really applied to searching out the problem, checking out everything with each empty & it does show weakened plastic stretched on /at the/ under the corners of the hard roll up area openings and even the velcro areas ALL showing stretching of plastics around the edges, wear and tear AND the tiny holes come from those hard plastic areas with being opened by the end of 2nd or 3rd day & the edges lifting off the pouch.  

I'm going to try the little clips simply bcuz I feel I'm being poked harder from these edges as well & much prefer not having small bruises in those areas.  I am pretty sure that the problem comes from needing to open the spout area in order to release output,  rinse the pouch then holding it open to dry it after, something I've done from day 3 bcuz the nurses wouldn't do it in hospital, they didn't have time. Hmmm...  Maybe Hollister is using a harder platic on the spout openings as well as thinner louder pouches?  

  I've been at this almost 15 years & I am feeling like I want to take Hollister by the proverbial ear & invite them into a day of life with high watery output & these stupid ridiculous petty (money saving? Enviromental saving? Cost saving for wage hike ? )  leaks!!!  Sadly Hollister has become a "JOKE" to me! The amount of time I spend cleaning up after their pouches seems unfair. Add to that extra water I use & we pay for here, extra toilet tissue use, extra M9 use, due to more frequent emptying afraid of pouch failure, all the extra bags in the landfill ... UGH!!!  

So far the best result to temporarily avoid those tiny leaks has been to take pieces of the edges of the C'shaped stretchy tapes, using the gradual  thinner edges & fitting pieces to each of the hard sides of the plastics on the pouch & then I use the left over inside pieces of those stretchy tapes to place a longer piece above the velcroed flap for extra durability bcuz thats where I noticed the first leak.  The added tapes held off a blue leak almost 5 days. Now, bcuz the wafer on this pouch is lasting like the ones before "Hollister improvements", I do have to clean off those patch work tapes & re-apply them or the blue gets thru quicker. This has NOT been foolproof by anymeans as at the point of changing the tapes, I need larger pieces & that brings along bulk in the roll up department which can mean leaky  issues in the edhes of those roll up flaps. This is all so annoying & time consuming.  I've become more self-conscious again about my pouch area & in turn it's a bit degrading I suppose. I'm a 66 year young women with a body that appears to hate me these past few years & having to deal with these rediculous issues has not helped in how I feel about myself.  Next problem solving try,  is going to be a rubber cement  & or duct tape on the hard edges. I've tried the Gorilla Glues too and I even moved past my fear of opening a teensy tiny tube of krazy glue to see if that would have helped... fail there too... lolololol! Very deep sigh.... 

SHAME ON HOLLISTER, SHAME!! 

Eric/ Anyone... is there an address to the Hollister head office company ? Sorry to ask but I bag my pouches & toss the boxes for a more room in my supply cupboard. 

Again, thank you Osto- Mates ! I do  appreciate all your time & ideas! If anyone has another suggestion please feel free to add it here. 

Linda


   
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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
Admin
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4206
 

Posted by: @dogtalkerer

If you spread a thin layer of petroleum jelly, Vaseline, in the tail area before rolling it up,  should stop leaks. 

I was thinking the same, but never tried it. I'd worry about it being messy and inconvenient, but so is having M9 leaking onto your clothes 😵 

 

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.
~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


   
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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
Admin
Joined: 10 years ago
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Posted by: @dlkfiretruck

Eric/ Anyone... is there an address to the Hollister head office company ?

Hollister's contact info can be found here: https://www.hollister.com/en/contactuspage

Their USA office should be their head office.

I would urge anyone who's been having issues with Hollister products, especially after they changed the plastic, to let them know how the change has negatively impacted your life.

I've already committed to quite a few months of supplies, but I will likely start looking for alternatives, just in case I need to bail on Hollister.

 

 

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.
~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


   
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(@dogtalkerer)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 315
 

VO, think more like a zip lock bag, not frosting a cake when it comes to using Vaseline.  A chapstick heated under faucet might work well. 

If it's messy, you are using too much.  If it's inconvenient, then you don't really have a problem in the first place.   A simple solution to an annoying problem can not be too inconvenient.


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 506
 

@dlkfiretruck I really think if you could get used to the idea of a pouch with clip it would eliminate your whole problem. The clip is not an inconvenience as you just set it down on the back of the toilet or the sink until your done emptying and cleaning the end and just clip back on. Because the clip is seperate it too can be washed off or wiped with a wipe. It's very clean and secure. They give you one clip per box and they also sell clips alone for purchase to have extra on hand.

You may want to request a sample first to see if it's right for you. 


   
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 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1467
Topic starter  

Thank you again everyone! I am on Day 10 of wearing this Hollister 8931 pouch! I'm Very pleased with this except for dealing with the blue M9 leaks from the thin plastics tearing tiny holes around & under the hard plastics on the roll up velcro pouch.  I have concerns regarding the plastic stretching where the velcro is attached as well and each day I see more & more of the plastic becoming stretched, slowly weakening more.   

I won't be trying the vaseline bcuz no matter how thin a layer it still melts with warmth & frankly I don't need one more thing to clean up after. Thank you anyways but I think Hydraulic Grease would do better! Lol! 

At this time, the tapes I'm using, lol,  seem to have swelled enough to block further leaks. I will try the little clips next pouch for sure. They certainly sound more secure...lol! 

yesterday... I spoke to a Lady at Hollister & when I asked for her name again she told me that she was also the  "Supervisor of Customer Service!" Imagine That!!  She looked at my file & then said the "She believed in transparency" & from there addressed each of my complaints about Hollisters products. I nearly fell over! Lol!  She told me that we are right, they are using a the thinner, noisier plastic resulting in odor & obviously leaks.  Imagine that!!! Lol! An honest response! Wow! 

Apparently what happened around the time or just before the pandemic blowing up, the company Hollister purchased plastics from, for whatever reason, they went out of business forcing Hollister to use what they could get that was safe for this use. We all know what this resulted in! 

So, she told me that unless Customers tell them of issues we are having the "powers up the line" will not do anything about about it!  GASP!! Lol!  She assured me these leaks, odors & noisier pouches would be something they are interested in hearing about & Strongly encouraged we write letters to the company. 

She gave me the address you did Eric (Thank You) & also the name of the TWO departments she said to send copies too in order to alert them that we Ostimates are not happy with the products.  

Research & Development Quality (RND for short) /   2000 Hollister Drive /    Libertyville, Illinois /    60048  

Also Copy to ... Quality Assurance Supervisor of Customer Service

You can also send pictures & a letter of where your pouch failures are to... 

canadacustomerservice@hollister.com send to attention Nicole. 

I was also told that it would help to explain how these failures have affected your life, your work, expenses & so on.  I have to say that this Lady really made me feel Like I was Heard!  So, basically, the more of us that take this time to write out or type, print off & mail an actual letter, obviously the better.  So if you are able to, not just for us but for the coming Newbies, please, lets do this.

My apologies for the length of this & Thank You  for reading along. 

Linda


   
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 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1467
Topic starter  

Well, I really hope I have this settled once & for all!  I have tried so many things & most suggestions here. But, in further thinking this through, I may have found what I needed most for a simple no fuss resolution to these annoying blue leaks.

PAINTERS TAPE ! Lol, You read that right!   Painters Tape!!   I found the elastic tapes were just too thick when rolled up  & caused a leak in the center.  The clips were great but these arhritic finger joints rebelled & I got poked a lot from the edges. To those who made suggestions, Thank you so much!! 

The other day while cleaning after dinner I was thinking reinforcing the outer edges as usual only using something that could possibly withstand the rolling & unrolling as frequently as needed, bulk free as possible & also able to withstand some moisture.  Scotch Tape was flat out, OUT! 

Then one day watching a you tube artist as she applied painters tape to make her crisp  borders, she then slapped on the water color paints rather vigorously & not just once over several hours but  multiple times. When she peeled off the P. T. to reveal the lovely straight edges around her Art, there was no PAINT leakage at all!! Light bulb moment here!

So,  I applied 2 layers of Painters tape on the edges, from just beyond the top of the velcro flap then to the bottom of the last piece of hard plastic. This reinforced those thin areas between the hard plastics where seperation & pin hole leaks began in the first place.   Typically by the end of day 2 & 1 night, there are signs of a leak ... But...  On day 5 & 6 nights there are still no leaks. It has been a crazier gut week then usual with little sleep and STILL NO LEAKS. Knock on wood or my head, lol,  whatevers closest!  This is such a pleasant turn of events & I could hardly wait for enough days to go by to let you know & to say yahoooo!... well, So far anyways! Lololol!  But even just this long is an amazing result.  I'll report back when its pouch change time, then if this is still successful it'll be happy dance time! 

Linda


   
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Tigerlily
(@tigerlily)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 342
 

@dlkfiretruck wow Linda! Your diligence has paid off! Thanks for your trial and error, and your perseverance with Hollister. You’ve helped a lot of people.

 

Laurie

Just a semicolon


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 506
 

@dlkfiretruck leave it to you to find the perfect solution! That youtube artist video was  meant for you to watch. I believe everything happens  for a reason. So glad you found your solution!


   
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 LK
(@dlkfiretruck)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1467
Topic starter  

Thank you Tigerlily & chelly for the replies.  I was pretty darned determined to figure this thing out!! Lol!  Still, so far so good. Who knew painters tape was so tough & could take the repeated folding like this?!  I'm pretty impressed with it... lololol

 

Linda


   
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VeganOstomy
(@veganostomy)
Admin
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 4206
 

@dlkfiretruck Talk about improvising to find a solution! Who would have thought that painters tape would come to the rescue?! Don't let ostomy companies know, or painters tape will triple in price 🤣

Just your friendly neighborhood ostomate.
~ Crohn's Disease ¦ Ileostomy ~


   
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Chelly
(@chelly)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 506
 

Haha yes they will be making painters tape. It's a shame they cannot just design bags to to what they are supposed to do. 


   
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